Fantastic Four #371-375
Issue(s): Fantastic Four #371, Fantastic Four #372, Fantastic Four #373, Fantastic Four #374, Fantastic Four #375
As a reminder, i allowed for a gap in time during issue #370 during which some other FF appearances take place. After the gap, the Puppet Master showed up at the FF's building to say that Alicia has been kidnapped. This issue starts with Mr. Fantastic setting up a device that will show what happened during that period.
Note Reed and the Thing talking about that "see the recent past" device like it's something new. We've in fact seen this type of thing since the Silver Age. I think they are incredibly silly, but if we must have them, it should at least be acknowledged that they've been around (maybe no one wants to admit that Mr. Hyde created the technology; see the Reference in Avengers #23-24).
Anyway, they learn that Alicia has been kidnapped by Aron the Watcher.
Reed then goes to check in with the Invisible Woman, wondering why repairs on the roof haven't started yet. And she debuts her horrible new costume, and is very upset that Reed might want to talk about anything else.
The idea that Sue has to go around with her thighs, belly, and shoulders exposed in order to be sexy instead of her normal skintight costume is ridiculous enough, but the boob window is the clincher. There's also the fact that it's explicit that Sue designed this costume to be sexy, in order to gain her man's approval. The Invisible Woman is a professional super-hero, and this is her business costume. She's not a stripper, and this costume isn't designed for playing Fredericks of Hollywood in the bedroom. But she designed a super-hero costume to get her husband to notice her, and took the time to find material that would hold the the shape of a four as she moved around in battle. And then her reaction to Reed's non-reaction shows that she's insecure about herself. We've basically lost all the character growth that Sue went through in the previous decade. It's offensively ridiculous.
I have to also admit that when i was a teenager and i first saw this costume, i was actually kind of grossed out by it. I thought of Reed and Sue as being older than most super-characters, and i still do, to a degree. The idea of Sue, someone old enough to be a mother of two, going around in a costume that no one should be wearing but certainly no one my mom's age should be wearing, was icky to me. I'm older now and i recognize that view as being kind of sexist. And i also get that there was a time, especially for people Tom DeFalco's age, when the Invisible Girl was the pinnacle of sexy female super-characters, and in a weird, sad sense, this was an attempt to restore her to that position.
There's also one other thing to consider. We saw during Infinity War that Sue (re-)met the Malice persona. And it will eventually become clear that Sue is influenced by Malice, in a story that concludes with Sue going back to her older costume. So while people comment on the period where Sue was wearing this costume at face value, it definitely seems to be the case that she was under Malice's influence. There's still a major "have your cake and eat it too" aspect to this. There's no denying that the point of putting Sue in this costume was for oggling purposes. There's a similar plot going on in the Avengers at this point with Sersi and they just made her outfit red; she didn't have to take her clothes off. And even if we accepted the fact that she's only in this costume because of Malice, that just means we're back to what at this point has become a cliche of a plot, where a woman becoming more assertive is all twisted up with becoming evil and sexy.
Also note Franklin in the scene above. I had not been reading DeFalco's FF in realtime, but i started in the middle of this arc due to the "new Fantastic Four" appearance. And i stuck around for way too long because i got it into my head that cool things were going to be done with Franklin Richards. I imagined a payoff for all the hints and build-up during his appearances in Power Pack. What we actually got, well, i'll save that for when we get there.
Meanwhile, the Human Torch is thinking about what it means to be a super-hero in the 90s, with the prevalence of kick-ass characters like the Punisher, Wolverine, and, er, X-Factor, and how he doesn't want to get left behind.
You can obviously read that on a meta level, although the inclusion of X-Factor makes me wonder if DeFalco was even reading the books he was publishing (or maybe he meant X-Force). And as we'll see, DeFalco's solution for the Human Torch isn't to make him more superficially kick-ass like, say, Iceman with his power upgrade, or to have him going around flash-frying villains Punisher-style. It's really just about upping the angst level.
Since Johnny is at college, he's not around when the Thing and Mr. Fantastic begin the search for Alicia. And the Invisible Woman is too angry, i guess. But Sharon Ventura has been hanging around the FF again recently, and gets a new costume and joins the search for Alicia.
We learn that she's secretly reporting everything to a mystery master. DeFalco and Ryan don't try too hard from hiding the fact that he's Dr. Doom.
The Puppet Master wants to go on the quest too, but he's told that he can't go. So, on his own, he possesses the Molecule Man and sends him along as back-up.
The others follow the trail and find Aron the Watcher, who is creating a "New Universe based upon a single, personal vision".
I don't know if we're mocking Jim Shooter or what.
While Johnny's at school, he runs into that "cute coed", Brigid O'Neil.
College was still a few years away for me when i was reading this, but when i was at school i never heard a woman described as a "coed". Yes, our dorms were described as coed, but applying that word to a woman felt and feels very retro. Nowadays the only place where i see the word is in my spam folder.
Anyway, Brigid is immediately frozen by Paibok the Power Skrull, who had teamed up with Devos the Destroyer. The Torch considers sending out the old flare symbol to call in the rest of the FF, but, no, he's gonna do it on his own. Like X-Factor would.
Paibok and Devos are joined by Lyja.
Johnny thought she was dead, and her new powers make him think that she's an imposter (and of course we couldn't get through a villain team-up without a thought bubble of the villains planning to betray each other).
Lyja announces that she is now Lyja the Lazerfist.
When Johnny is convinced that it's really Lyja, he wants to know if their baby has also survived. But Lyja isn't saying; she claims that Johnny "abandoned" them.
At this point Johnny does send out the flare, but only Sue is home to see it. In the meantime, Johnny is getting battered and he decides that the only way to survive is by using his nova blast.
When Sue arrives, the villains have been driven off, but Johnny has set Empire State University on fire.
Johnny surrenders himself to Code: Blue at the start of issue #372. But later, when he's being transferred, the Skrulls use their shapeshifting ability to trick the Human Torch into attacking a crowd and fleeing custody.
In the meantime, Sue has to entertain a meeting of the tenants in the FF's building, who are upset that repairs haven't begun on the roof (and there's also a general panic about the Torch). During the course of that, i guess we get a rebuttal to the complains about Sue's costume. Sort of?
DeFalco also has three different tenants wonder where Sue's husband is, i guess as a kind of brute force way of showing how Sue's "new" assertiveness is coming into conflict with old fashioned sexism.
Meanwhile, the Molecule Man is clearly still pining for Volcana when the Puppet Master possesses him.
The rest of the characters that went after Alicia are stuck in a scenario set up by the rogue Watcher. It's a scenario very similar to the Liddleville story from Fantastic Four #236.
So it doesn't feel like it's meant to be commentary on the New Universe. But it also doesn't feel like a "single, personal vision".
The Molecule Man is back to being unable to affect organic molecules.
Aron defeats the Molecule Man through a combination of attacking him with organic matter and encircling him in a void where there are no Molecules. But the Thing, Mr. Fantastic, and Ms. Marvel manage to escape their little illusion world, and the combined distraction of that escape and the fight with the Molecule Man distracts Aron long enough for Dr. Doom to show up and zap him, siphoning off his cosmic powers.
Meanwhile, J. Jonah Jameson has hired the Silver Sable's Wild Pack to hunt down the Human Torch. The Torch has gone fully arch in his dialogue, talking about the "wonders I have experienced" and his "unwavering reverence for human life".
The Torch defeats the Wild Pack. Silver Sable then tries to convince Spider-Man to join her. Spidey doesn't accept right away, and swings off to think about it, but he ultimately decides to join the hunt for the Torch. Except he doesn't go to Silver Sable. He heads over to Dr. Strange's place. And Strange has been waiting for him while playing with his tarot card deck. Strange's deck has shown him "the card of death... and doom!", which has Strange convinced that the Human Torch's fate has "greater cosmic scope than is readily apparent". So, at Spider-Man's suggestion, he recruits the other three people that, with Spider-Man, filled in for the Fantastic Four once before.
Because who better to help find a hero that has found himself on the wrong side of the law than three of Marvel's most violent, angry, vengeance-obsessed anti-heroes? I mean, geez, look at these lunatics.
If i were Spider-Man and/or Dr. Strange, i would have recruited Iceman, who is sort of friends with the Torch and whose powers have a chance of counteracting Johnny's without hurting him, and Captain America (because duh). My first instinct was to wonder why Spider-Man didn't just go to the rest of the FF instead of working with Silver Sable or Dr. Strange, but then Tom DeFalco reminded me how dysfunctional they are.
I mentioned that the use of Franklin is what kept me going through this awful run when i was reading it in realtime. There was actually something else. I was reading Doom 2099 and was wrapped up in the mystery of whether or not it was the real Dr. Doom. And then i saw Doom here constructing a armored suit that looked like a prototype for the 2099 version. So i was looking forward to some cool revelations.
Meanwhile, the New FF/Secret Defenders locate the Human Torch and approach him with all the subtlety of a
Johnny had been wanting to handle things on his own, but the arrival of these jerks causes him to swallow his pride and summon the FF. Their arrival just causes the situation to escalate.
DeFalco has such a poor handle on the merged Hulk. And, as i noted when DeFalco wrote the Wolverine: Bloody Choices trade, his Wolverine is much more violent and stupidly nasty than anything we see in the X-Comics. It's like the last Wolverine appearance DeFalco read was back in 1979 before any of the character work Claremont did with him.
You also have to love Dr. Strange hammering home the word "doom". Doom... doom... do the FF have any kind of association with that word that i should be thinking of?
Then there's the Fantastic Lockhorns.
Misunderstanding Fights are a hallmark of Marvel comics, but the levels of stupidity and bad characterization necessary to make this one happen are just unforgivable. It's a shame, because Paul Ryan does fairly well with the art (i don't love the Hulk's gigantic Frankenstein chin, but that's a small thing)...
...and it's always fun to see various powers interact.
This all builds up to the moment where Wolverine uses his claws on the Thing's face.
We don't actually get to see the results of that slash yet.
I'm not sure if the others would have stopped fighting, but Ghost Rider and the Torch continue to fight. But they're interrupted by the arrival of Lyja the Lazerfist, and then seconds after that all the FF-related characters are teleported away. Dr. Strange makes the brilliantly vague statement that if it was one of the FF's "countless foes" that teleported them away, then we may have seen the last of the FF.
It turns out it was actually Uatu the Watcher that has summoned the FF (and sundries). Uatu has been holding Aron since Doom stole Aron's power, and Doom has just recently been by Uatu's place to announce that he was going to conquer the Watcher's citadel. The FF point out that they're in the middle of their own problems and that Uatu can defend himself, and Uatu considers it and realizes that they're right. Doom isn't really a threat to him, only to Earth, and so he's possibly violating his non-interference oath by calling the FF. He teleports away with Aron to be judged by the other Watchers, conveniently leaving the FF where he brought them.
With a break in the action, we get to see the Thing's face.
Despite the Thing's injuries, the FF split up to search the Watcher's home for Dr. Doom, with the groups designed to maximize bickering between couples (Lyja with Johnny, the Thing with Sharon, etc.). Among the Watcher's artifacts, the Thing finds a monument to the Fantastic Four circa Fantastic Four #3 when the Thing was briefly convinced to wear a helmet.
He and Ms. Marvel are then attacked by some robots activated by Doom, and in the fight, the Thing's exposed injuries prove to be a liability.
So after the fight, the Thing puts on the helmet. His injuries are festering beneath it.
Meanwhile, the Richardses know what's trendy: big guns and brown jackets.
They're attacked by Doom, and Sue has no interest in guarding Reed's Optimizer.
Doom's attack destroys the Optimizer. But Sue surprises Doom by attacking with "force daggers" ("It appears I am not the only one who has changed!"), and he withdraws to repair his armor even though he has an opportunity to kill Reed while Reed is tending to Sue. The FF are then joined by the Inhumans for the final fight with Doom.
Doom calls on Ms. Marvel to reveal her allegiance to him, but she betrays him.
And Mr. Fantastic gives a newly built second Optimizer to Black Bolt, who shouts into it. The result is to feed Doom with even more power, in one of those "give him more than he can handle" situations. Doom disappears in an explosion (he's seen back at his castle at the end of the issue).
Back on Earth, the FF's lawyer (Daredevil) and their financial agent, a new character named Makio Yakaki, are trying to prevent Empire State University from suing the FF. Yakaki, acting on Sue's orders, offers a settlement that will wipe out the FF's finances.
And when the FF and friends get back to Earth, they find that Franklin got a little out of control and knocked out Agatha Harkness, but it's ok because grandpa Nathaniel Richards has come for a visit.
This book has become X-Men Lite with very short notice. If we skip over the Infinity War tie-ins, the last story in this series was Occulus and the Innerverse, about as traditional an FF story as you could get. And now we have stripper outfits, big guns, jackets, Wolverine scars, tons of angst, a Nathaniel Richards that has become a dead ringer for Cable, etc.. And along with that, a storyline that never so much concludes as fades from one thing to the next. It's also worth noting the increased size of the cast, as if the Fantastic Four themselves can't carry the book. At the same time, though, we have some nice traditional layouting from Paul Ryan and throwback dialogue ("Even a Skrull must admire such courage in the face of a vastly overwhelming foe"). Despite the writing being garbage in two different directions, i did come on board with these issues and stay with it for a while. I'd like to say i was in it for the art, but i have to admit that at the time these developments hooked me. I soured on a lot of it pretty quickly - the Thing keeping that helmet on instead of soaking his head in a bucket of hydrogen peroxide gets increasingly stupid - but i kept hanging on waiting for what seemed like would be cool developments for Franklin and Doom.
Issue #371 had an all white embossed cover and sold for an additional $.75 ($2.00 total). A second printing, which is what i have, had an all red cover (same price). Issue #375 had a holo-foil cover and sold for $2.95, but at least it was also double-sized.
Statement of Ownership Total Paid Circulation: Average of Past 12 months = 205,542. Single issue closest to filing date = 207,100.
Quality Rating: D
Chronological Placement Considerations: In the entry for last issue (Fantastic Four #370), i noted the need for a gap before the arrival of the Puppet Master, since that issue was an Infinity War tie-in and the FF had a few additional appearances to make post-Infinity War before this arc began. This arc results in some major status quo changes. The Invisible Woman gets a new costume and the Thing's face is scarred. Unfortunately, the depiction of these characters in other books around this time is really inconsistent, with these changes often not getting acknowledged. This is really odd considering that the writer of this book was no less than Marvel's Editor in Chief, and it's especially bizarre that some of the hardest problems to reconcile occur in another FF title, the new Fantastic Four Unlimited, which was overseen by Group Editor Ralph Macchio. Fantastic Four Unlimited #1-3 are especially problematic since they shows the Invisible Woman in her new costume while the Thing's face is unscarred. Which is pretty much impossible since both changes occur in FF #371 with no time to allow for a gap (since the FF should be getting ready to go find Alicia). The MCP handle that particular problem by treating Sue's costume as an art error and (i guess) the Thing's face as an art error for the next two. But i prefer to find No Prize-ish solutions whenever possible, so i'm going to assume that all three stories take place after this arc, with the Thing using an image inducer. That's somewhat off-theme since the Thing is wearing the helmet as a kind of angsty penance, and it's weird to say that he uses an image inducer some of the time and a helmet the rest of the time. But i'd rather say that he's switching between the two as some kind of internal debate than simply ignore the Invisible Woman's costume. And once i accept the use of an image inducer, it can be used as often as is needed.
This arc takes place after Dr. Strange's power loss from Doctor Strange #48-50. Note that a couple of Strange appearances have to occur before Doctor Strange #48-50 but after Infinity War, and Alicia was kidnapped during Infinity War. So the gap in FF #370 is fairly long, and that means that Alicia was missing for a fair amount of time without anyone seemingly noticing.
The other "Secret Defenders" can fit in any gap in their regular appearances. The Hulk is summoned from his house in Reno, which does not indicate one way or another whether he's the head of the Pantheon at the moment. Note that a back-up story in Amazing Spider-Man #375 takes place during this arc, while Spider-Man is deciding if he wants to take Silver Sable's assignment to hunt down the Human Torch. I don't consider that back-up to be a real story, since it's just a set-up for a Saga-like list of past Spidey/Torch encounters (and what little story content there is is more or less duplicated in these issues), but it would take place between/during Fantastic Four #373-374 if you wanted to place it. Also see the Considerations for Amazing Spider-Man #374-375; despite, or regardless, of that back-up, the main story takes place after these issues.
Silver Sable shouldn't appear here between Silver Sable and the Wild Pack #9-10, while she's separated from her team.
The appearance of the Inhuman Royal Family on the moon here suggests that it takes place before Fantastic Four Unlimited #2, when they decide to return to Earth.
This arc ends with the arrival of Nathaniel Richards. We'll see him telling his story at the beginning of next issue (Fantastic Four #376). And that issue ends with Franklin Richards becoming an adult, so that's another major status quo change that needs to be managed (e.g. Franklin appears as a kid in Fantastic Four Unlimited #2). But there's nothing at the beginning of next issue that mandates that it continue directly from here, so in order to fit in other appearances i'm going to assume that Nathaniel was given time for a shower, a nap, and a sandwich after all his time traveling, and everybody's only ready to meet with him again at the start of the next issue.
Continuity Insert? N
My Reprint: N/A
Inbound References (15): show
What do you think, gang? Can anyone remember a more negative review on this site? Personally, I agree. I think DeFalco's script is garbage and it kind of amazes me that there are still fans of this run today.
At the same time... It's sort of readable? I sped thru this run last year on marvel unlimited and sort of hate read the bulk of it after a throwaway reference in an upcoming hulk issue. And Paul Ryan's (RIP) art is definitely nice and IMHO miles better than a lot of what was going on at Marvel 1993.
But that costume... Look, I remember being 12 and wishing I could meet a girl who was into comics like I was. And then I remembered, wait, no. Fucking Emma Frost in all her glory is on the cover of every New X-Men cover (while back). I would be humiliated if someone saw me with this. IMHO, this was a bad sign of things to come.
Posted by: G something | September 7, 2016 3:57 PM
I'll admit something: when I was a teenager, I saw some art from this period and I thought that FF in jackets and with guns were cool.
... dammit, there's still a part of me that says it is cool...
The stripper outfit for Sue is idiotic, though.
Posted by: Piotr W | September 7, 2016 4:17 PM
Strictly on the subject of "how much is too much" re: Sue's costume, I ran it past Angela Dawn. She pointed out the muscles- like one could actually get from pilates, etc.-and she likes the athletic look. She says the costume fits in places as to not be utterly impractical for movement, and decided she likes the look overall. If you're going for a cut-out- and she likes them- she's properly costumed below, and you can see her abs, her core. So, there's a straight-forward feminine perspective on the matter. :-D
Posted by: Cecil | September 7, 2016 5:06 PM
That Molecule Man / Volcana scene is so creepy yet so funny.
Posted by: Mizark | September 7, 2016 8:01 PM
The ending of issue 374 is a homage to the ending of Uncanny X-Men 136.
Posted by: Michael | September 7, 2016 8:51 PM
There's a lot of dumb stuff in these issues, but I like Owen's majestically dorky new costume, as well as his fight with Aron. "I've heard you Watchers are tough... but nobody can beat the Molecule Man!"
Posted by: Mortificator | September 7, 2016 9:28 PM
All the criticisms are correct, and yet... I like the fact that this run is unashamedly comic book-y. Recycled plots, ludicrous soap opera dramatics, continuity callbacks aplenty, Dr Doom, a rogue Watcher, super-villain fights... The characters may be angsty, but the comic isn't, it's unembarrassed about being cheap entertainment. Which is something Marvel comic books have always been about, even though they can be about much more too.
Paul Ryan's art is actually very good, and it seems somehow like a huge improvement over his smudgy and stiff work on Avengers West Coast and Iron Man. DeFalco's plots and dialogue are imitation Roy Thomas meets imitation Chris Claremont--but again, in one sense that's what Marvel is, or was, about.
DeFalco also has a real comic book-my talent of hooking readers by making it seem as if something big is about to happen in just a few issues. He did it on Thor, and he does it here. unfortunately, there's no delivery: the High Evolutionary stuff in Thor never amounted to anything, we got two stories in which the big surprise was that a villain was possessing Odin, and in this book we get a lot of teases from Franklin Richards and stuff about the Celestials and Galactus, at the end of which the payoff is...Hyperstorm.
Posted by: Walter Lawson | September 8, 2016 1:14 AM
The art is mostly serviceable (although when did Owen Reece start being modeled on Alfred E. Neuman?) but good god is the story bad. My favorite bit is how Johnny decides to call for help because he's outgunned. Uh, Johnny, you know you can fly, right? And that none of them can?
Posted by: Erik Beck | September 8, 2016 6:28 AM
Sue's new costume is of course horrible and over-the-top...but it is also perfect for the storyline. It is actually modest compared to Sue's Malice costume; it is a blend between Sue's regular FF uniform and her Malice costume, just as Sue herself is currently a blend between her normal self and Malice. The costume design is a perfect visual symbol of what is going on with her character at this point. It should also have been a huge red flag for Reed about what had happened with her--but DeFalco did manage to keep throwing distractions at the team constantly at this point, so Reed and the others were too distracted to really focus too much on the real meaning of Sue's outfit.
Posted by: Dermie | September 9, 2016 12:05 AM
The guns are a bit much and Sue's costume has plenty of issues, as discussed. But I'll once again lobby in favor of the jackets as actually serving some kind of purpose and not looking terrible over a superhero costume. I guess I can't deny they're a 90s gimmick, but I maintain they're the least gimmicky of all the gimmicks from this era.
Posted by: Austin Gorton | September 12, 2016 4:20 PM
Exactly. These jackets may be annoying, as Marvel put them on everyone... but taken on its own, they aren't a bad costume idea. Just like a gun is a valid piece of equipment for some brands of superheroes, even though everyone was using huge guns in the 90s...
I'd say the jackets actually do fit the FF's theme as sci-fi adventurers. Being explorers, they should travel a lot... and wearing warm clothes makes sense when travelling.
Posted by: Piotr W | September 12, 2016 6:28 PM
It was probably Grant Morrison during his Animal Man stint who first introduced the Jacket trend...
Posted by: Jay Gallardo | September 13, 2016 8:40 AM
Fnord, since you have this FF arc after X-Men 17-19, and Wolverine is in both that arc and this, should you perhaps (when you get to it) put Uncanny X-Men 298-300 before this arc as well? 298-299 takes place while Cyclops' team is participating in X-Men 17-19 and I believe Jean leaves for issue 300 (which features Wolverine) directly from the end of 299.
Posted by: Jeff | September 14, 2016 1:30 PM
I think so, Jeff, but let me get to it. :-)
Posted by: fnord12 | September 14, 2016 4:00 PM
I always felt the Malice-as-cause reveal was not the original plan and just a way for DeFalco to explain away a stupid costume design after readers gave him grief.
Posted by: Bob | September 14, 2016 4:48 PM
@Bob, I don't think so. By this time we had already been shown Sue absorbing the Malice doppelganger into herself and it was warned at the time that it could have influence over her. That isn't even foreshadowing--that was made clear up front.
Posted by: Dermie | September 14, 2016 7:19 PM
@Jeff- only Uncanny X-Men 298 takes place during X-Men 17-19. Uncanny 299 takes place sometime after X-Men 17-19, since Colossus and Illyana are thinking about their parents death in that issue and Uncanny 300 continues from Uncanny 299. So Uncanny 299-300 can in theory take place after this arc.
Posted by: Michael | September 14, 2016 10:12 PM
The hilarious thing is that if they sold FF Halloween costumes at Spencer's Gifts, it probably would like Sue's 90s get-up.
Posted by: Jon Dubya | September 14, 2016 11:14 PM
Michael -- You are right! that's my misremembering. Thanks!
Posted by: Jeff | September 15, 2016 10:51 AM
I didn't see anything linking Uncanny X-Men #298 to X-Men #17-19. Please tell me what i'm missing on the Uncanny entry.
Posted by: fnord12 | September 15, 2016 2:49 PM
To add to the intro blurb Fnord laid out,let us take another look at the cover of issue #375 amd wo der at how we missed this rather glaring conformation that this all was a piece of blatant shock value:
This is not your parents comic magazine
Wow the F4 are certainly "badass" and "in your face" huh?
Sue's costume is a hot mess, but a case could be made for Reed wearing a Liefeld jacket. He's not just a super-hero, but an inventor and engineer as well. It would make sense for him to have a place to store some small "science essentials" (incidentally, this was why Animal Man started wearing jackets: the keep essential household items on him in the pockets). And it IS better than that other 90s storage trend: the fanny-pack.
Posted by: Jon Dubya | September 21, 2016 1:52 PM
fnord, a piece at Comic Book Resources discusses a later continuity hiccup that occurs with these issues when X-Men volume 2 #25 is published...
Posted by: Ben Herman | October 2, 2016 7:40 PM
I feel like I'm missing something obvious, but as far as I can tell you don't have Wolverine in the characters appearing, but should?
Posted by: Greg T | October 31, 2016 3:19 AM
Just a miss on my part. Thanks Greg.
Posted by: fnord12 | October 31, 2016 12:22 PM
I think from this point on, you can just default to listing Wolverine as a character appearing in any comic.
Posted by: Wanyas the Self-Proclaimed | October 31, 2016 2:53 PM
I wouldn't call them Liefeld jackets since Byrne put them in jackets like that, at least as far back as FF #272 from 1984. Their sleeveless jackets were white at that time, but very similar in design, liking your basic mountain hiking expedition type throwovers. I don't know what year they switched them from white to brown, but it's a good idea and easier to keep clean.
The DeFalco era is a huge swipe file from almost every previous FF era, and much of it unacknowledged, even by footnote. There's hardly anything new here, mostly just recycled. The new stuff is mostly superficial gawky stuff, like Sue's boob window, plus higher levels of body horror, angst, and adrenaline. Horribly written IMO, and really does some real lasting damage, that would be almost impossible to ever fully retcon away from, without totally breaking continuity, like for instance, the whole Alicia-was-a-skrull-the-whole-time retcon.
I don't know how much damage this does to the Franklin and Nathaniel plotlines yet, and to be fair, that's all pretty hard to get a handle on anyway-- those characters were arguably already irreclaimably damaged, since long before DeFalco's period, if not right from the start. Arguably the best thing to do with most of this old dusty overused FF continuity is to just try to ignore it as much as possible. But to do that I guess they'd need to present new ideas of their own.
Posted by: Holt | November 25, 2017 4:59 AM
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