Out of scope
The scope of this project begins with Marvel Comics #1, and it will end (if i ever get there) with the 2015 Secret Wars event (why?). For the most part i won't be covering alternate timelines (e.g. the original Guardians of the Galaxy). I'm only covering Marvel comics and comic magazines (e.g. not novels, not newspaper comic strips, not web comics, even if they are in continuity). I won't cover crossovers with other companies, and that includes the Malibu books that Marvel briefly owned. I also don't intend to cover comic book lines that Marvel originally intended as separate from their main continuity, even if they became canon later, like the New Universe or the Ultimates. I may make the occasional exception on any of these rules, especially as storylines merit (e.g. crossovers with the mainstream books).
This is a non-exhaustive list of books that are out of the scope. The list shows items that i've determined to be out of scope, but it may not be the only items that are out of scope. For what it's worth, as i do for a lot of things, i for the most part follow the MCP on which books aren't considered canon.
Comments are enabled for this page but please check the MCP page before asking if something will be considered canon. Also, my focus is going to be on getting all the clearly canon books covered, and that's likely to take a lifetime. So while thinking up and asking about edge cases may be fun, it's not where my head is at.
Books prior to Marvel Comics #1
All of Marvel's Robert E. Howard books (Conan, Red Sonja, Kull, Thongor)
Cyberspace 3000 #1-5
Sagas and Handbooks
Random question: with the end of the Squadron Supreme mini in '86 and the fact that this universe keeps intersecting with Earth-616, will you be covering this upcoming or is this out too?
Posted by: Ataru320 | August 21, 2013 4:04 PM
Yes, Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme will be included in 1986. It crosses over with Captain America #314.
Posted by: fnord12 | August 21, 2013 4:13 PM
I don't know if you care about this, but some people probably would.
Posted by: Chris Kafka | August 21, 2013 4:34 PM
Haha thanks, Chris. It was my stealthy way of trying to get Ron Howard to direct a revival of the awesome Krull movie which would include a crossover with Conan and Red Sonja, but you caught me.
Posted by: fnord12 | August 21, 2013 4:38 PM
I found myself recently remembering that I'd read, somewhere, in the
Suggested additions from this list:
Doc Savage (October 1972-January 1974-8)
As I recall, most of Savage's adventures took place pre-1939, though I would check.
2001 (December 1976-September 1977-10)
Posted by: PB210 | August 23, 2013 10:33 PM
I'd agree that Doc Savage would be before what this web-site covers. He didn't cover the original Dominic Fortune stories, and Fortune would have initially been operating around the same time as Doc Savage.
Posted by: Chris Kafka | August 23, 2013 10:44 PM
PB210: We actually have just been having a discussion in the 2001 thread: it's continuity mostly cause of X-51 (I was going to just say "Machine Man" but Korvac had the name first...and the purple jumpsuit); plus Earth X has a monolith and a lot of that alt-uni uses a lot of 616 concepts. Its hard to speak of it on my own due to not being a comic expert but if others say 2001 is continuity then it's continuity.
Posted by: Ataru320 | August 24, 2013 8:15 AM
Thanks for that list, PB. As Ataru says, 2001 is included here.
As for Doc Savage, Giant-Size Spider-man #3 is listed on the What's Missing page. Doc Savage also appeared in Marvel Two-In-One #21, which is included. So his Marvel books are in continuity, just out of scope due to the time period.
Posted by: fnord12 | August 24, 2013 2:05 PM
Weren't the 2001-Monoliths in Earth X(and the sequels)revealed to be tools of the Watcher?
MTIO #21 also established Doc Savage in the Marvel Universe. Bizarrely, all the Marvel Doc Savage stories(except the ones with Spider-Man and the Thing)have been collected by DC.
Posted by: Mark Drummond | August 24, 2013 2:08 PM
Essential Tomb of Dracula V.4 does an excellent job of reprinting all the b&w Dracula stories in chronological order, which makes that problem solvable all at once(except for nudity being censored). It does leave out three stories: Dracula Vs. Solomon Kane from DL!, the sequel from Savage Sword of Conan, and the retelling of Dracula's origin by Perry/Bissette/Totleben from Bizarre Adventures.
Posted by: Mark Drummond | August 24, 2013 3:25 PM
Dark Horse has an Essential Solomon Kane collection (called Saga of Solomon Kane) which collects the Dracular Lives story.
Posted by: Chris Kafka | August 24, 2013 3:59 PM
Another intriguing Out of Scope case involves Tarzan. While that list from OHOTMUDE lacks mention of Tarzan #1-29, Tarzan Annual #1-3 and Marvel Super-Special #29, a later reference or use of Abdul Alhazred implied him as connected to the version of Abdul Alhazred in the Tarzan series. Since all of the aforementioned Tarzan issues took place in 1929 or earlier, they miss the 1939 barrier.
Posted by: PB210 | August 25, 2013 7:43 AM
A different Abdul Alhazred is mentioned in several Lovecraft stories as the author of the Necronomicon, so that may not have referred to the Tarzan Alhazred.
Posted by: Mark Drummond | August 25, 2013 4:50 PM
It's supossed to be the same person, although the one in the Tarzan comic doesn't bear much resemblance to the Lovecraft version.
Posted by: Chris Kafka | August 25, 2013 5:31 PM
What, no Thongor (Creatures on the Loose)? ;)
Posted by: Jay Demetrick | November 21, 2013 2:51 PM
Thongor was a licensed character from Lin Carter,and never had any connection with the Marvel Universe.
Posted by: Mark Drummond | November 22, 2013 4:06 PM
Technically, probably true. The issues were all adaptations of Carter's stories.
Posted by: Chris Kafka | November 22, 2013 4:17 PM
On Thongor, Roy Thomas once wrote:
Thus, the history of Sub-Mariner's Atlantis goes back in time, - to embrace Conan's Hyborian Age, Kull's Savage Atlantis, Lin Carter's Lemuria.
Now Lin Carter wrote some Conan and perhaps Kull tales involving Lemuria later adapted into Savage Sword tales and elsewhere, but I suspect Thomas had in Thongor in mind with this sentence.
Posted by: PB210 | November 23, 2013 11:29 AM
With some recent discussion about Secret Wars II #9, i realized i missed a question there from Jay Patrick on whether or not i'd be covering The 'Nam or Nth Man. The answer is basically that i don't intend to cover either.
I do have the Punisher issues of The 'Nam in this project (i'm missing a couple). But issue #41 of that series explicitly said that Marvel comics were just that in the 'Nam world. Not the "comics that document the real world events of superheroes" comics that exist in the Marvel universe. So i think that settles it. Even if it turns out that that issue is contradicted elsewhere, i don't think it would be worth delving into the 'Nam issues since they wouldn't have any impact on the rest of the Marvel universe (unless there are other exceptions like the Punisher issues).
As for Nth Man, that was again intended to be completely apart from the Marvel universe. I know Excalibur did eventually meet the characters, but it's still a tangential alternate future at best and i don't intend to cover those (same reason i skipped Machine Man 2020 and the Hercules minis).
Posted by: fnord12 | February 16, 2014 10:51 PM
On The 'Nam, Ice Phillips, debuting there, eventually made more "mainstream" appearances. The Index treats this as Earth-85101 Ice Phillips for The 'Nam.
Appropriate that the Punisher came up, as he (thought mostly deriving from Mack Bolan) has roots in the Shadow, as does the following property for Out of Scope: Night Raven. Some of Night Raven's adventures took place pre-1939, appropriate for an homage to the Spider and the Shadow, others take place in the proper era for your purposes. Some of the prose Night Raven store appear at the second link. A collection of the pre-text tales came out for the US market.
Posted by: PB210 | April 9, 2014 9:57 AM
Is Thor 384, which takes place in the future, considered out of scope?
Posted by: Robert | April 16, 2014 9:50 PM
Correct. I've added it to the list.
Posted by: fnord12 | April 17, 2014 7:30 AM
This is just a variation on question I've asked before but I'm still curious: Considering the fact that Marvel's ULTIMATE line eventually crossed over with the mainstream MU, will you be theoretically covering all those books when the time comes, or just the crossover issues?
Posted by: Jay Patrick | April 21, 2014 4:02 PM
My apologies. Obviously you've already addressed this. Mea culpa. Please carry on.
Posted by: Jay Patrick | April 21, 2014 4:05 PM
Whoops, there's Thor annual 5.
Posted by: david banes | April 22, 2014 10:26 PM
Fnord12, even though your not going to review these out of scope series, could you give your opinion of them in some way. I mostly want to read your opinion about the original Guardians of the Galaxy series. If you can of course.
Posted by: doomsday | June 24, 2014 10:30 PM
Believe it or not, I haven't read the original GotG series. I've never been too intrigued by the characters based on their appearances in mainstream Marvel books, but you'd think that with Steve Gerber and Roger Stern writing the issues i would have sought them out even though they're not part of the core Marvel universe. Marvel has reprinted them now in anticipation of the movie and i may pick up that trade used at some point but it's a bit pricey right now.
There's also the 1990s series by Jim Valentino which generally is well regarded. I read a few scattered issues of it, but i generally found it too What Iffy, with a Punisher Corps and an abundance of Venom symbiotes and stuff like that (i don't remember the details).
Posted by: fnord12 | June 25, 2014 2:19 PM
A gang of Punishers, yes. Abundance of Venom symbiotes? No. There is only one 'symbiote' in the series at all, which gets introduced very late in the run--and even that turns out to not be a symbiote after all.
Posted by: Dermie | June 26, 2014 12:59 AM
In the older Guardians stories, there wasn't much to tie Earth of the year 3000 to the wider Marvel Universe. The Valentino series did a nice job of including entities, items & cultures that could have/should have lasted the 1000 years. Perhaps they swung the pendulum too far the other way, however, as most stories I recall introduced some new tie-in to the 20th century universe.
Posted by: Erik Robbins | June 26, 2014 2:04 AM
Hi, fnord12, have you ever considered including the Hercules 4 issue limited series written by Bob Layton? Especially the one including the Skyppi the Skrull. I can't remember the actual title of the series.
Posted by: JSfan | June 26, 2014 5:31 AM
@Dermie, thanks. In addition to not remembering the details it seems i made some up (or i've mixed it up with something else).
@JSFan, i bought a couple of those issues in realtime and i remember being confused because at first i didn't realize it took place in the future and then (like a lot of readers who wrote in) wasn't sure how the Skrulls could have shape-shifting powers in the future after they had lost them in the present (i was young and naive). In any event, since they take place in an alternate future, they're out of scope for this project.
Posted by: fnord12 | June 26, 2014 7:35 AM
Uhm... What about Alf Annual 1? There's a crossover with Evolutionary War! :)
Posted by: Midnighter | June 27, 2014 3:51 AM
Midnighter, I'm glad you brought that issue up. I only bought it because of it's (humurous)crossover with the Evolutionary War. I would love to hear FNORD's opinion on this issue.
Posted by: clyde | June 27, 2014 10:14 AM
You guys may have noticed that the MCP is ambiguous on that annual: "Alf (although watch for the High Evolutionary in the annual!)".
Are you sure it isn't the High Alf-olutionary appearing in that story? Hah! I kill me!
(That joke is probably in the issue, isn't it? Sorry.)
Posted by: fnord12 | June 27, 2014 2:28 PM
My 616 'fanon' definitely includes that Alf Annual. (Fanon here not referring to the anticolonial thinker)
It's funny how much time is spent documenting and discussing canon edge-cases (this site, the MCP, the high-functioning OCD site Complete Marvel Reading Order...). I think it stimulates a certain part of the nerd-brain. I geek out learning about things like the Special Executive, am a huge Death's Head fan, really wish there was a way to square the Transformers with 616, etc... I even want you to eventually accept The 'Nam into your pantheon and i'm not even actually invested in the series in any way. Canonitis, a benign neurosis.
Posted by: Cullen | June 27, 2014 3:21 PM
Cullen, on the issue of squaring Transformers with 616, there aren't any real problems with doing that (whether you take the US or the UK Transformers continuity) until Generation 2 (which is one of at least three different timelines following on from the end of the original Marvel comic). The only possible problems would be:
Posted by: Stephen | June 28, 2014 3:56 AM
Didn't The 'Nam feature the Punisher in later series? I think Doug Murray had left because the new editor wanted to features super heroes. Does that mean it's part of Marvel canon? I'm not asking it to be including, I'm just curious.
Posted by: JSfan | June 28, 2014 4:50 AM
Fnord has already covered the Punisher issues in his study.
Posted by: Ataru320 | June 28, 2014 5:42 AM
Fnord, looking at your page for 1972, you declare Night Nurse to be "not-in-continuity." However, I don't see it listed here as Out of Scope. I was just poking around the web today and saw conflicting positions on this. The Marvel Chronology Project considers the Night Nurse from the 70s to be one-and-the-same as the character who pops up in Bendis's Daredevil (http://www.chronologyproject.com/n.php).
Obviously it's your site and your call, just wanted to see if you were aware of her retroactive inclusion in 616.
Posted by: Cullen | July 14, 2014 1:26 AM
Thanks, Cullen. The last time i looked into this, i thought i saw confirmation that the original Night Nurse series didn't have anything to do with the character Bendis introduced. But the Wikipedia page now confirms what you're saying and i see another character from the series also appeared in an issue of Nightcrawler. I even had the opportunity to buy one of the issues (they are pretty rare) but i didn't, so now i'm kicking myself. But i've added it to the What's Missing page and updated the 1972 category page.
Posted by: fnord12 | July 14, 2014 8:05 AM
Will you be covering the Squadron Supreme: Death of a Universe GN?
Posted by: Robert | September 9, 2014 3:57 PM
I treat the Squadron Supreme like a pocket universe within the Marvel universe, so yeah i'll be covering that as part of 1989.
Posted by: fnord12 | September 9, 2014 5:55 PM
Thor: The Truth of History, a one-shot by Alan Davis released in 2008, takes place mostly during the time of ancient Egypt. The framing sequence takes place in the present day but only features a couple of characters that I don't believe appear again in the MU. I assume something like that is out of scope, right?
Posted by: Robert | September 27, 2014 7:12 PM
Thanks Robert. I suppose i should technically include it when i get to 2008 if there's a present day framing sequence. Most likely i'll just list it on the What's Missing page at that point, unless for some reason it becomes relevant and i feel compelled to pick it up and cover it.
Posted by: fnord12 | September 27, 2014 11:52 PM
How about StrikeForce: Morituri?
Posted by: Vin the Comic Guy | March 14, 2015 7:40 PM
That's listed on the MCP's non-canon page. And until now i would have said that it was totally unrelated to the Marvel universe and shouldn't be listed here any more than, say, Groo. But i see now that in 2014 it was referenced in X-Force, so i've added it to the Alternate Future list.
Posted by: fnord12 | March 14, 2015 8:20 PM
I know that as a general policy you don't plan to cover the Marvel/DC crossovers, but how about Marvel's UNLIMITED ACCESS? It features a character who hops back and forth between the two universes and as I recall a great deal of effort was put in from both sides to insure that the series would be considered canon.
Posted by: JP | May 25, 2015 11:13 PM
What about JLA/Avengers? I likewise believe that's considered canon.
Posted by: Thanos6 | May 25, 2015 11:52 PM
Sorry guys. No intercompany crossovers will be included.
Posted by: fnord12 | May 26, 2015 7:38 AM
Fnord, you break my heart just a little bit more, every day.
Posted by: cullen | May 26, 2015 4:08 PM
To be fair, the JLA/Avengers crossover is in continuity ;)
Posted by: Bill | May 26, 2015 4:40 PM
Bill, it definitely was on DC's side. ACCESS, on the other hand, was acknowledged by both companies.
Posted by: JP | June 1, 2015 6:12 PM
Marvel's acknowledged JLAvengers too, albeit only in handbooks.
Posted by: Thanos6 | June 1, 2015 7:39 PM
Right, I remember Luthor's appearance in Avengers Forever! Heck Superman's fist is in the first issue of What If...? (volume 1). Thanos6 is right that the JLA crossover is indeed mentioned in the Handbooks.
Posted by: Bill | June 1, 2015 9:36 PM
I like the way the notes in the AVENGERS FOREVER TPB issue call Luthor "a striking-looking bald man."
Posted by: Thanos6 | June 2, 2015 5:34 PM
Posted by: JP | June 2, 2015 6:42 PM
I know you've covered What If #4 and #9. What about #35, in which the Watcher shows Daredevil a reality where Bullseye was killed before his attempt on Elektra's life? There's also What If Civil War, where the Watcher shows Iron Man two alternate outcomes of Civil War. Are there any other What If stories where the Watcher shows an alternate reality to another Marvel character rather than narrate it to the readers?
Posted by: NES Boy | June 5, 2015 12:34 AM
I know that in What If #7 there are a couple pages of the "real" Spider-Man swinging around before the What If segment starts. The Watcher doesn't actually narrate to Spider-Man, but it would count as an appearance of Spidey if i were to cover that issue. It wouldn't surprise me if there were more like that.
But in terms of my priorities, i wouldn't seek stuff like that or issue #35 out at the moment. I covered #4 because it really isn't a What If, and i covered #9 because i wanted to sneak in a quasi appearance of the Agents of Atlas. The fact that the Avengers appear in #9 is really a happy coincidence. When i do add more What Ifs it'll be because they have impact on the real MU, not just because of the character appearances. At least until i get so sick of the 90s and run out of other older issues to cover. :-)
Posted by: fnord12 | June 5, 2015 10:58 AM
Yeah, well, hang in there, since there's quite a few notable issues coming up such as 1991's New Mutants #98 (1st Deadpool, though it will take him quite a while longer for him to gain his iconic characterization) and the Infinity Gauntlet saga.
Posted by: NES Boy | June 5, 2015 3:07 PM
...both of which still have plenty of 90s madness coming after them (I'm pretty sure they both predate almost the entire Clone Saga).
Posted by: Morgan Wick | June 5, 2015 5:52 PM
Pretty sure I know the answer to this but the Silver Surfer graphic novel from 1978 is out of continuity, right? It's been a long time since I read it and I only remember a little of it. I do remember changes, such as no FF when he brings Galactus to Earth, but I don't recall the context for them.
Posted by: Robert | March 8, 2016 2:02 PM
The MCP actually list it, but they tag the characters appearing as the same ones that appear in the 1988 Moebius story. The "Parable-verse" characters (as the MCP tag them) appear in the alternate future Marvel UK series Cyberspace 3000, which does include an appearance by a present day Adam Warlock, so i may cover at least the issues that he appears in. But i don't think i'll cover the 1978 graphic novel or the Moebius story story. I'll add them to this page's list.
I bet this answer is a lot weirder than what you were expecting. :-)
Posted by: fnord12 | March 8, 2016 2:12 PM
Still a long long long way off but Marvel Universe: The End?
I think most everyone agrees that it probably is canon. Especially since it's been referred to very specifically SEVERAL TIMES afterwards. Brevoort is pretty much the only person adamant it isn't and never was.
Posted by: AF | March 8, 2016 8:38 PM
The Official Handbooks are pretty schizophrenic with it. There's a profile for the villain from it, Akhenaten, that treats it as non-canon but then there's loads and loads of other profiles that mention the events of it. Off the top of my head, the Council of Godheads details their involvement and Man-Killer's describes her fighting against Thanos with the Thunderbolts.
And of course, almost every Starlin story since has referred to it and treat it like canon. Thanos Imperative Sourcebook treat it completely as canon.
Posted by: AF | March 8, 2016 8:46 PM
I do intend to cover Marvel Universe: The End when i (eventually) get there. As you note, it's referenced in stories that are canon.
Posted by: fnord12 | March 8, 2016 9:14 PM
I think you'd better add-in Origins II to this list, it involves Logan meeting up with Creed (and his family) for the first time (in a chronological perspective).
Posted by: D09 | March 14, 2016 5:47 PM
Sorry about the double-post, but do you know about any chronological sites about Marvel Comics that does for the time period from the beginning of time to pre-WWII that you do for WWII onwards?
Posted by: D09 | March 14, 2016 5:57 PM
D09, can you confirm that Origins II takes place entirely before Marvel Comics #1 (i.e. before 1939) and that there are no present-day sequences? I admit that i avoided it like the plague when it came out, despite liking Kieron Gillen.
Regarding the pre-WWII stuff, i don't know how complete or accurate it is, but you might try this list on Marvel's wiki.
Posted by: fnord12 | March 14, 2016 6:06 PM
I don't recall any "present-day" scenes in Origins II, though it does provide an explanation as to why Creed hunts Logan on his birthday; but in terms of the boundaries placed on your project, you can add it to this list.
Posted by: D09 | March 14, 2016 6:14 PM
Done. Thanks D09.
Posted by: fnord12 | March 14, 2016 6:19 PM
I'm not sure I understand. So Origins features a major character and a major event in his life and is considered canon but it won't be covered solely becuz its pre-WWII is that it?
I don't quite follow the logic. Is it just that there's no point in placing it?
Posted by: JC | March 14, 2016 10:53 PM
See the rest of the page. This project starts with Marvel Comics #1 and doesn't include any of the many stories that take place before then which, by definition, are all continuity inserts. It's not intended to be a comprehensive overview of Marvel Comics history, just a chronological ordering of comics set roughly when they were published, and any relevant continuity inserts to be interpolated between them.
Posted by: Morgan Wick | March 15, 2016 12:00 AM
Hey, fnord, I don't know if you've thought about it yet, but do you know if you'll be including Hickman's SHIELD series in this project, or if it will be considered out of scope? The scenes with young Nathaniel Richards and Howard Stark would be in scope time-wise, but there are clues that the whole series may take place in an alternate universe (and thus that the Nathaniel Richards in Hickman's Fantastic Four run isn't our Reed's biological father).
Posted by: Andrew | March 15, 2016 7:07 AM
Uhm... I don't think that Hickman's SHIELD is set in alternative universe. Many elements resurfaced in Fantastic Four, Avengers, AvX and Red She-Hulk.
Posted by: Midnighter | March 15, 2016 7:24 AM
I'll definitely be waiting until publication year before i even consider touching that.
Posted by: fnord12 | March 15, 2016 9:11 AM
In SHIELD #2, page 19, when a doorway to alternate dimensions is opened by Nikola Tesla the John Byrne version of Nathaniel Richards, the Warlord, is shown next to the Nathaniel Richards of the SHIELD universe. The same scene is shown from a different angle in Fantastic Four 581, page 11. And the Warlord gets killed by yet another Nathaniel Richards on page 2 of issue 582. So either the Byrne version of Nathaniel or else the Hickman version is not Reed's biological father. I prefer to think that the Hickman version is Reed's "adopted" father. It gives added resonance to the "Every boy needs a father" line, and to the whole Hickman storyline.
Other evidence that the SHIELD universe is not the 616 universe is that Galactus first visited that Earth during the Rennaisance, whereas in the 616 universe he didn't find it until FF #48. Plus there's a panel in the 4th issue where it sure looks like the diplomat Benjamin Franklin is leading troops into battle during the Revolutionary War while George Washington discovers the Savage Land (!).
Of course, none of that means that similar things couldn't have happened in the 616 universe. I just prefer the interpretation that the series as a whole happens in an alternate universe. (As you can probably tell, I loved Hickman's early Marvel work, and it kills me that the second SHIELD series hasn't been concluded yet...)
Posted by: Andrew | March 15, 2016 12:47 PM
Now that I think about it, are you going to cover any of Marvel's romance comics, like the ones involving Hellcat in her pre-superhero days, or are they out of bounds like the westerns?
Posted by: D09 | May 29, 2016 12:18 AM
Patsy Walker is listed on the What's Missing page. They're in-scope for my project, and they're canon (with the caveat that they've been retconned to be in-universe comics). I don't have any immediate plans to cover them, though.
FYI the Westerns are only out of bounds because they take place pre-Marvel Comics #1, which is the lower bound on my project. They're not excluded because of the genre.
A semantic point: i consider Patsy Walker's comics to be more like teen comedy in the Archie vein. When i think of "romance comics" i think of Simon & Kirby's Young Romance, which was not a Marvel book but Marvel did have comics along those lines, like My (Own) Romance. They're pretty awesome but i don't think any of them are canon.
Posted by: fnord12 | May 29, 2016 9:11 AM
Will you be covering the Exiles or are they considered to be Out of Scope?
Posted by: D09 | June 5, 2016 9:34 PM
A: This might be a doozy of a question for you to answer, but besides the obvious ones that don't belong in the "main" Marvel Universe (all the various adaptions of things like Scooby-Doo and Star Trek, all the other imprints like Star Comics and Epic Comics, etc.), which comics shown on the MCP's non-canon list do you consider to be canon?
B: Any thoughts on how you might approach the Infinity Comics that Marvel keeps publishing every now and then in the near future?
Posted by: D09 | June 6, 2016 10:41 PM
Now that you bring up Star, D09, some consider the Meet Misty series to be in-canon aaaand...
Oh, what's this?! I just googled to get a little more info and see fnord's already kinda sorta dealt with it on this site: http://www.supermegamonkey.net/comics/2013/11/
I don't think it's listed either here on the What's Missing page, so where'd the canonicity hammer come down fnord?
Posted by: cullen | June 7, 2016 4:26 PM
Any thoughts on you changing your mind to continue past Secret Wars (2015) instead of stopping there?
Posted by: D09 | June 8, 2016 11:49 AM
I will probably treat Exiles like What If: it's canon but not a priory for me. So they will probably just get listed on the What's Missing page, except for issues (if any) that intersect with the mainstream Marvel universe.
For the most part i intend to stick to the MCP's non-canon list. I think there are three exceptions on my site so far:
Daredevil: Man Without Fear is a tricky one because of the Elektra reference, and i also keep it because i don't have a copy of Daredevil #1. I think the MCP's list may just be out of date regarding Brute Force. And i'm happy to see that Spider-Woman: Origins is on the list; i think i covered it before that determination was made, and maybe i'll just get rid of it.
Adventures of Captain America and Silver Surfer: Enslavers are things that i have on my What's Missing list (with notes that they are questionable) that the MCP lists as out of scope, but i'm not in a hurry to cover either of those. In general, if the MCP lists it as non-canon i am happy to skip it; i've got plenty of definitely canon books that need to get covered, and that's the priority.
I only cover comics that i own physical copies of, so i won't be covering any Infinity Comics or other web-only comics. Some web-only material was later reprinted, so i might cover those. But this site is really about putting my comics in a physical order, so stories that are only available digitally won't be covered.
I've added Meet Misty to the What's Missing page. I'm not sure if something like the later Models series makes reference to Misty, but the fact that she's Millie's niece seems like it should be enough to consider it canon. It's a moot point since the issues seem to be scarce. And it wouldn't be a priority for me anyway; i don't even have any Millie, let alone Misty.
It's worth noting that the other Star characters may also be considered canon thanks to a 2009 X-Babies series, but i don't think i would cover them. As it says on this page, my priority is covering the definitely canon stuff rather than looking for edge cases.
Still no intention to cover anything post Secret Wars.
Posted by: fnord12 | June 8, 2016 11:49 AM
Obviously this is still far, far away, but I would suggest doing all of Exiles, treating it like Micronauts. It crosses over with the 616 universe a number of times, and a bunch of 616 characters (Beak, Sage, Psylocke, Proteus) even join the team for a while. Plus they run in to the Squadron Supreme, who you cover, and feature a bunch of characters from the Age of Apocalypse, similarly a "spin-off" universe from the 616.
Posted by: Berend | June 8, 2016 2:05 PM
If and when you get to the publication year these series were produced in, will you be adding in these series to the project?
Cage (vol 2)
If not, that's fine with me, I just want to know why these would be considered out of scope.
Posted by: D09 | June 9, 2016 9:11 PM
These are all from the MCP out of scope list, and i don't intend to cover any of them. The point of me following the MCP list is that i'm not going to try to determine for myself if the series are in scope; the MCP has already made that determination. So i'm not able to say why they are out of scope. You might have better luck asking the question on the MCP's forum.
If anyone here does have any more info that they want to share, D09 posted a similar question on my forum.
Posted by: fnord12 | June 20, 2016 12:21 PM
Are you going to cover Loose Cannons, the Warheads spinoff from 1993/1994? If you do I know where you can find the site where all four issues (even the pages that were never completed) are individually scanned page-by-page.
Posted by: D09 | June 22, 2016 12:09 AM
It was never published, so i don't think it counts as canon, and i only cover actual physical comics.
For those interested, i think this is the site D09 refers to: http://www.2000ad.org/markus/loosecannons/
Posted by: fnord12 | June 22, 2016 7:21 AM
If anybody out there is interested in novels involving Marvel Comics characters, here's a more or less complete list of them: https://www.sff.net/people/krad/marvel.htm
Posted by: D09 | September 27, 2016 7:47 PM
Hi fnord, have you heard of the "parody" 7-issue Marville series? I recently heard of it on TVTropes and man it looks awful. But regardless of (the lack of) quality, the biggest issue is that apparently it says Wolverine is the first human, evolved from an otter. That violates so much canon it can't be considered in scope, right? Oh, and Batman seems to appear in it. And the Marvel Wiki just puts the whole thing in an alternate reality anyway. So yeah, I was just wondering why it wasn't listed on this page yet.
Posted by: Nate Wolf | June 3, 2017 2:53 AM
But listing Marville here would mean acknowledging that it exists!
Posted by: Omar Karindu | June 3, 2017 7:53 AM
...in hindsight, I think it does deserve to be out of the out of scope page's scope, if that makes any sense.
Posted by: Nate Wolf | June 3, 2017 11:41 AM
The MCP actually does seem to treat Marville as taking place on 616, and the closest fnord has come to declaring a comic as being straight-up non-canon (as opposed to not being in scope based on when it's set) that the MCP hasn't is Namor #44. On the other hand, even if Marville were otherwise in scope, if there were any comic "deserving" of the "coveted" F rating, it's hard to think of a "better" candidate than Marville. (It may actually be the equivalent of Scrappy-Doo in that sense: are The Crossing or Chuck Austen's crap really that bad, compared to the verminous, soul-tainting badness of Marville?)
Posted by: Morgan Wick | June 4, 2017 3:45 AM
Haven't read Marville, but it's hard to imagine it could be worse than Garth Ennis's Fury Max.
Posted by: Andrew | June 4, 2017 5:26 PM
At least Fury has an actual coherent plot and is actually vaguely grounded in reality. Take issue with what it's trying to do, at least it's trying to do SOMETHING and actually vaguely succeeds at it. Marville doesn't have a bunch of excessive gore and violence, but it might inflict more on your brain. (Of course I've only read the Wikipedia article on Fury Max, it may be worse than that lets on.)
Posted by: Morgan Wick | June 4, 2017 10:15 PM
As Morgan notes, the MCP does not treat Marville as non-canon, although on the other hand it only has a listing for the main character, Kal-AOL. According to Wikipedia the character also appeared in a GLA series and got a Handbook entry.
I've never read it and don't want to make a unilateral ruling on it. It seems like a decision i can defer at least until i get to 2002.
Posted by: fnord12 | June 8, 2017 11:17 AM
Between 1974 and 1977, Marvel published 29 issues in black-and-white magazine format (under the Curtis imprint) of the Planet of the Apes, which featured both adaptations of the original five films and original stories. Also in the same time period, there was a standard color comic of original stories titled ADVENTURES OF THE PLANET OF THE APES that lasted 11 issues. The primary writer for both series was Doug Moench. Would these merit a mention in the Out of Scope listings, perhaps under the same umbrella?
Posted by: Brian Coffey | August 31, 2017 9:48 PM
They're listed on the MCP's list.
Posted by: fnord12 | September 1, 2017 1:40 PM
I'd argue that the Garth Ennis Punisher MAX series, its spinoffs (i,.e., Barracuda and Born), and at the two Fury MAX series are probably out of scope. Punisher MAX has some character carryover from the Marvel Knights series by Ennis, but it ignores the sliding timeline and employs a version of the Central Park shooting that appears to be irreconcilable with the "mainstream" Marvel continuity version. It is also implied to be a universe without superheroes, or even most science-fiction elements.
The version of Nick Fury that appears in Punisher mAX is strongly implied to be the same one from the Fury MAX miniseries and the later Fury: My War Gone By series. that second series, especially, makes the MAX version of Fury outside mainstream continuity as well. (interestingly, the first Fury MAX series does have a version of HYDRA, but not one that fits very well with regular Marvel continuity.)
The clincher is the Jason Aaron PunisherMAX series, a direct sequel to the Ennis MAX run that introduces its own alternate versions of the Kingpin, Bullseye, and Elektra. Given their backstories and fates, this would seem to push all of the Punisher MAX stuff out of continuity.
Posted by: Omar Karindu | October 19, 2017 7:57 PM
As long as "Welcome Back, Frank" is still in continuity, I'll be happy. :)
Posted by: ChrisW | October 19, 2017 9:03 PM
Ennis is definitely writing his run on Max as an extension of his run on Marvel Knights. The Punisher continues his character trajectory from MK, as does intermittent supporting character Yorkie, who that series introduced. When Jen Cooke and Frank Castle meet again in Max #27, she jumps to the conclusion that he's there to kill her over the events of MK #24-26.
It's not unusual for Punisher stories to leave out superheroes and super-tech. The portrayal of his family's deaths in Central Park has varied over the years too: Conway (shot by five mafiosos for witnessing an execution), Grant (shot by a single hitman), Baron (caught in a mob crossfire), Potts (back to the original version), Ennis (back to a crossfire). Now I'm thinking of the checklist fnord's run through for the ten or so versions of Captain America's origin.
Posted by: Mortificator | October 20, 2017 2:58 PM
For what it's worth, the handbooks did originally list events from Punisher MAX in Punisher and Microchip's entries. They were removed from Punisher's entry in the 2009 printing, but not Microchip's. They were the last printings, the 2012 printings never got passed H before Alonso announced they were cancelling them because "nobody cares".
Personally, I don't see why they can't be canon - there's plenty of other MAX series that are definitely canon and the Ennis Punisher's were obviously written with the intent of being canon and originally were considered canon. Microchip's fate is also necessary for the Rick Remender run but it's also true that a more ambiguous version of it happens at the end of Chuck Dixon's run anyway. The handbook's say that the Chuck Dixon version was a fake-out for him to go to work for the CIA as seen in MAX. Remender's run never actually makes any specific reference to which version of events led to it.Plus, the MAX version is just far better send-off than the Dixon version. I've really done a great job at withholding the spoilers that Microchip dies twice. Oh.
Posted by: AF | October 20, 2017 3:23 PM
Comments are now closed.
|SuperMegaMonkey home | Comics Chronology home|