EK: You keep saying that rural Americans are good and decent people, that they work hard and participate in their communities. But no one is questioning that. The issue is that people who live in cities are also good people. People who live in exurbs work hard and mow their lawns. So what does the character of rural America have to do with subsidies for rural America?TV: It is an argument. There is a value system that's important to support. If there's not economic opportunity, we can't utilize the resources of rural America. I think it's a complicated discussion and it does start with the fact that these are good, hardworking people who feel underappreciated. When you spend 6 or 7 percent of your paycheck for groceries and people in other countries spend 20 percent, that's partly because of these farmers.
EK: My understanding of why I pay 6 or 7 percent of my paycheck for food and people in other countries pay more is that I'm richer than people in other countries, my paycheck is bigger. Further, my understanding is that a lot of these subsidies don't make my food cheaper so much as they increase the amount of it that comes from America. If we didn't have a tariff on Brazilian sugar cane, for instance, my food would be less expensive. If we didn't subsidize our corn, we'd import it from somewhere else.
TV: Corn and ethanol subsidies are one small piece of this. I admit and acknowledge that over a period of time, those subsidies need to be phased out. But it doesn't make sense for us to have a continued reliance on a supply of oil where whenever there is unrest in another part of the world, gasoline prices jump up. We need a renewable fuel industry that's more than corn-based, of course, and there are a whole series of great opportunities here. But as soon as we reduced subsidizes for biodiesel, we lost 12,000 jobs there. So if you create a cliff, you're going to create significant disruption and end, for a while, our ability to move beyond oil. And keep in mind that the Department of Agriculture has moved, for years, to reduce our spending. We cut $4 billion in crop insurance and put that to deficit reduction. So we are making proposals to get these things in line. But a lot of our money goes to conservation, and goes to some of those 600,000 farmers who are barely making it.
EK: Let me go back to this question of character. You said again that this is a value system that's important to support, that this conversation begins with the fact that these people are good and hardworking. But I come from a suburb. The people I knew had good values. My mother and father are good and hardworking people. But they don't get subsidized because they're good and hardworking people.
TV: I think the military service piece of this is important. It's a value system that instilled in them. But look: I grew up in a city. My parents would think there was something wrong with America if they knew I was secretary of agriculture. So I've seen both sides of this. And small-town folks in rural America don't feel appreciated. They feel they do a great service for America. They send their children to the military not just because it's an opportunity, but because they have a value system from the farm: They have to give something back to the land that sustains them.
EK: But the way we show various professions respect in this country is to increase pay. It sounds to me like the policy you're suggesting here is to subsidize the military by subsidizing rural America. Why not just increase military pay? Do you believe that if there was a substantial shift in geography over the next 15 years, that we wouldn't be able to furnish a military?
TV: I think we would have fewer people. There's a value system there. Service is important for rural folks. Country is important, patriotism is important. And people grow up with that. I wish I could give you all the examples over the last two years as secretary of agriculture, where I hear people in rural America constantly being criticized, without any expression of appreciation for what they do do. When's the last time we thanked a farmer for the fact that only 6 or 7 percent of our paycheck goes to food? We talk about innovation and these guys have been extraordinarily innovative. We talk about trade deficits and agriculture has a surplus.
Ethanol as a fuel source is a pipe dream. Costs more energy to grow and process the stuff than you get from it. I don't know why Vilsack doesn't know that. The rest of it just sounds like we have to subsidize people so they feel appreciated. The thing about military service is just bizarre.
