So these scenes from Uncanny Avengers #6 caused a bit of a local uproar (including from me) about how catty and annoying the in-fighting was amongst the Avengers.

But it got me thinking about how inter-team disputes have been depicted in the past, and that while the above scenes are annoying, they are arguably more realistic than earlier scenes.

Now, to prove my point i went through a not-at-all-comprehensive review of Avengers issues that i've covered so far in my project. And the older comics actually came out looking better than i expected. I recall the Avengers actually coming to blows a lot during their arguments, but i couldn't actually find a lot of examples of that (if this were about the Fantastic Four it'd be a different story).

I've put the rest of this post below the fold to avoid a long string of images on the main page. (Also, breaking with tradition for the main blog, there's no alt text on these images.)

Keep reading.

Avengers #21 is a good example of the many times that there was squabbling during the Kooky Quartet years. They nearly do come to blows in this scene, but the other team members stop them (although the Scarlet Witch then does hex Hawkeye, causing him to fall).

In Avengers #65 we have the Swordsman showing up to fight the Avengers. But Hawkeye-Goliath wants to fight the Swordsman all by himself, so he physically attacks the other Avengers. This is really, really stupid.

In Avengers #80, the team is having an argument about how to best use their time. In some ways this is most similar to the scenes from Uncanny Avengers #6. There's no doubt that the art is much more dynamic and interesting to look at here. But my god is everybody speechifyin'. It definitely moves things forward faster, but is that more realistic?

This might fall more into the "hysterical woman" category, but in Avengers #108 we have a very upset Scarlet Witch. Now granted, i don't want comics in 2013 depicting Wanda as perpetually emotionally distraught (although of course they have been doing that, in their own way), but at the same time at least there's some dynamism to the art here.

Finally, here's some not-really-relevant but fun scenes from Avengers #229. While the fights are less bitter and more transitory, i think it's still useful as a comparison to the above UA panels.

So do i have a point here? Less of one than i thought i did! But i think the contrast is still noteworthy. In the modern comic, you have a bunch of practically stick figures standing around stiffly. Some decent facial expressions in the second panel. And the fighting is very bitter and does not get resolved or moved forward at all. But the dialogue is less expository (and this is Remender, who is criticized for being much wordier than the average modern writer) and arguably more natural.

Meanwhile, the older stuff is much much more interesting to look at. And yes, it's wordy, but it sure gets the point across and allows the plot to move forward (the rest of Uncanny Avengers consists of a lot more standing around talking and only very little action which is really set-up for the next issue; most of these other issues feature complete standalone stories).

Again, the point is blurred a bit due to Remender's uncharacteristic wordiness. It would be a starker point with i think any other modern writer.

What's better? This gets into the perennial complaints about my Quality Rating on my Marvel Timeline project. I enjoy the older stuff, and if it's a hard dichotomy and i have to pick one or the other i'd go with that. But i definitely read them in the context of their time period, and i know that they seem pretty ridiculous to a modern reader. I mean, Hawkeye just starts attacking his teammates? What?! Standing around with your arms crossed making catty comments is more like what people would really do. We'd hate them for it, but we can certainly imagine people acting like that. If, by contrast, someone pulled a bow and arrow on you, i'm fairly certain you'd make sure you were never in a room with that person again.

I'd like to think that we can find a balance here, though. Certainly we need more dynamic art. But i think the key thing here is to stop dragging stuff out so much. Maybe let Rogue and Scarlet Witch fight a bit, but don't add the Wasp into the mix, and let the peacemaking actually work. The real problem with the Uncanny spats is that they've been going on now - and going nowhere - for 6+ issues with no one giving any ground. Move this stuff forward.

And if that doesn't work, send in Sturky. He knows how to end an argument (and yes, this is my way of sneaking in a scene by Bill Mantlo & Sal Buscema, the masters of the histrionic).

i'm still not reading anymore Uncanny Avengers.

greeple