Issue(s): Daredevil #7
Cover Date: Apr 65
Title: "In mortal combat with... Sub-Mariner!"
Credits:
Stan Lee - Writer
Wally Wood - Penciler
Wally Wood - Inker

Review/plot:
The Sub-Mariner heads to the surface world...

...and tries to sue for ownership on the grounds that it is the birthright of his people. Nelson and Murdock try to explain to him why that's not possible...

...so the Sub-Mariner goes on a rampage in order to get arrested so he can have his day in court. But while he is away, Krang starts a rebellion in Atlantis, and the judge won't set Namor's court date until next week, so the Sub-Mariner breaks out of the prison to return home.

Daredevil goes up against Namor a few times (for no good reason, really), and since it's his book he gives a decent showing but he's no match for the Sub-Mariner.

More importantly, Daredevil tries out a new costume this issue. It's definitely an improvement.

In addition to the new suit, he's got a few new gadgets in his billy club. The first, the "cane cable" will become a DD mainstay.

The smokescreen, on the other hand, is quickly forgotten.

Frankly, while i'm more used to the cable, the smokescreen makes more sense. The cable makes him too much like Spider-Man. The smokescreen would have been a perfect compliment to Daredevil's special abilities.

Quality Rating: D+

Historical Significance Rating: 4 - first red 'classic' Daredevil costume

Chronological Placement Considerations: Namor's cameo in Avengers #16 best takes place before this issue. Daredevil appears in Journey Into Mystery #116 during this issue (he's swinging off to find Namor and can't stop to talk to a member of the Teen Brigade). Namor next appears directly in Tales To Astonish #70. Daredevil's red costume debuts here, so this needs to take place before Fantastic Four #39-40.

References: N/A

Crossover: N/A

Continuity Insert? N

My Reprint: Marvel Super-Heroes #27

Lady Dorma is a blonde in parts of this issue. is she trying to win Namor's love by appearing more like Sue Storm?

not only does the use of the cable make him more like Spider-Man, but i felt his constant banter during the fight and calling Sub-Mariner "Subby" was very Spider-Man-esque.

I think Lady Dorma's hair color change was only in the Marvel Super-Heroes reprint.

Her hair was either dark blonde or light brown in a 1970's tabloid reprint.

Still, the first encounter with the Daredevil we know and love!

How can this be a lowly D+?

This is the battle against unbelievable odds that all other battles against unbelievable odds have been measured up against. This is a Silver Age masterpiece. Honestly, I cannot understand the low grades assigned to the various comic tales chronicled.

And it is amazing that it did not involve Kirby or Ditko - it shows what a great talent Wally Wood was - one of the unsung heroes of the Silver Age!

It showcases Matt's ability as an attorney as well as Daredevil's heroics - a precursor to the legendary status the character would eventually earn.

Simply one of the most powerful tales of the Silver Age up until that point. Truly, a grade of D+ compromises the credibility of the grading system. It degrades it as a cavalier, non thoughtful approach. The tremendous work that this site demanded is shamefully diluted.

Jack, it seems like at this point you come to the site to get outraged over the grades. That's fine with me. I read your "How could you give this a X?" comments as "I like this comic and would rate it more highly!." And your six (!) comments here can actually be filtered into a nice review that counter-balances mine, and i think that's valuable. I wish you could do it not through the prism of complaining about my rating, but that's your prerogative.

I do think it's time for you to stop saying that you don't "understand" the grades, though. I've seen people here explain the grading to you directly, and the explanation behind the grades is linked to from multiple places on this site. I can understand if you don't agree with my methodology. I certainly understand the feeling that it doesn't make sense to judge older comics with modern criteria, and i acknowledge that in my explanation (you've read it, right?). But that's what i've done here. If you can't handle it, there are plenty of other sites on the internet that treat all these comics with nothing but reverence.

Well, the thing is this - this is a great site. You've done great work. There much to be appreciated here. I absolutely love the site. HOWEVER, the grades truly do a disservice to the work. To assign letter grades to these works of art is truly lacking. Would you grade Babe Ruth up against a modern day player? Otto Graham up against Tom Brady, etc? Of course not. To assign a grade of D+ to DD 7 is a travesty. You have disrespected hundreds of works by doing this. I can't understand why you chose to assign grades. The commentary would have been enough - the letter grades are an insult.

And to call it a "Quality Rating" - seriously?

I think that fnord has explained it enough times recently: the grades is essentially his feeling on what would happen if someone were to pick up said comic book and read it and how they would react. The quality rating has zero to do with how he feels about the book, which he explains in his reviews for the most part. This is just his feeling on what the average person feels if they were to pick up the book one day with no line of reference (or even a vast knowledge) and read it for what it is. If you like the book, more power to you; just use the star ratings and the averages for the book will emerge the more who vote for it. This is just how fnord sees the quality.

Then again it's more or less an excuse for a Daredevil/Sub Mariner fight, even if Namor suing for ocean rights is clever.

I just feel the grades take away from an otherwise noble endeavor.

My point is simple - the grades are a travesty. They did not need to be a part of the endeavor. They take away from this achievement. The entire notion of assigning a letter grade to these works is hideous ... a complete disregard for the art form. It is difficult for me to understand how the same individual that put together such a wonderful body of work is the same individual that chose to assign grades.

Fnord's grade is a guide to help your casual reader, nothing more. People can love a comic that are graded "D", but it is much harder compared to something he considers a quality work. I believe that in trying to rate the comics in himself, he is also advise others in what their experiences may be with the book. His own experiences, of course, are in the reviews themselves and don't necessarily rate what he thinks what others will rate (thus why the rankings are in this for others to give their opinions)

Rationalizing does not excuse it. The grades are a disservice to the art form. A poor device.

I enjoy Fnord's ratings, and when I disagree with them, I take it as a chance to learn and think about other people's tastes.

Walter,
The commentary is fine, but a letter grade is in poor taste when dealing with an art form. You can enjoy it, but it's still in poor taste.

The problem is that what was readable to a fan from the 1960s can be incomprehensible to a reader of today and that's what he's trying to do. Let's be serious: as revolutionary in some respects Stan Lee was, he was writing for a different era and many find problems in some of his dated sexist ideas of the time, leading to Sue Storm and Janet Van Dyne typically being written terribly. Likewise, certain art styles may have been more typical back in the early-mid 60s but it may not be as appealing or easy to see or as dynamic as things that came forth in decades afterwards. Mind you, I'm not saying there isn't anything revolutionary in these comics, it's just that to a reader who would pick up the book today, they may find it's quality lacking and may not see the magic that existed in the 1960s in the 2010s without some historical perspective or understanding. They may still be good, but many won't see them as such.

That's why the quality rating exists; Fnord is trying to give an explanation regarding how the average reader would see these comic books based on how he sees it. He still loves things in many of these books; he has had good things to say even in books he himself gave a quality rating of "D". However to the average comic book reader who may not get the context or who wants to just read a comic book and just picks this up, its a lot harder. We've become jaded or chaned due to modern experiences and things that emerged in comics after the historical period depicted in the books, and likewise the modern reader may not take the same impact as a reader of this time. Some may get it, some may not; that's what the ratings are for to prove what the masses think. But this is just what he thinks they are.

I get that. But it seems to me that issues pertaining to cultural norms of a particular era should NOT influence a "quality rating" in ANY era. The works need to be respected. A grading system is an act of disrespect to the art form. Within the commentary it would be appropriate to point out any racist, sexist, or civil/social constructs that may seem offensive or irrelevant to today's audience. It seems that EVERY Silver Age and most Bronze Age works have been pummeled with D and C grades. I'm not dismissing the issue that the grading Fnord uses attempts to address - I'm saying it's a poor and offensive way to address it.

Jack, get a fucking life. Shut up, quit your idiotic, repetitive, borderline psychotic whining, and either take this site as it is or get the hell out.

Paul,
How about if I don't regard your suggestion and I keep doing as I please? Yea, I think that's the way I'll go.

By the way, Paul - you are the individual that has chosen to bring this to the gutter. You should be banned for posting the cuss word.

"To make it more comfortable -- more distinctive!"

How about, make it look less it was designed by someone who was blind. True, Matt is blind. But, still. So great to finally see the red costume we all know and love.

If nothing else, Wood was giving the Marvel Age the best INKING it had ever had, up to this point in time. And there was a whole lot else. JMHO

The dense scratchy fog of hasty rush deadline dirty brush inking jobs was finally starting to lift. In addition to Wood's legendary experience and talent, other inkers had been gradually improving. New inkers had been slowly coming on board. Money was begrudgingly being spent. A higher bar was being set.

This was Wood's finest work at Marvel and it was awesome. The best early issue of DD there was. As far as the grading goes, it's our host's opinion and you have yours. Let's leave it at that.

Hmm, I actually agree with fnord's grade in this case. I've never understood why this story is so beloved. I actually kind of hated it. Mostly because I can't stand Namor.

fnord explained his system quite thoroughly in the faq. I find the grading to be a useful device, whether I agree with the host's opinion or not (and I often don't, but so what?)