Characters Appearing: Aunt May Imposter, Boone, Judas Traveller, Julia Caputo, Man-Wolf (John Jameson), Medea, Mr. Nacht, Scarlet Spider, Spider-Man
Issue(s): Spider-Man #51
The Spider-clone is then lured to Ravencroft, where Spider-Man has already been captured.
He has to fight Judas Traveller's goons.
Meanwhile, Spider-Man is put in some kind of device where he has delusional fights with his rogues gallery. He breaks out just as the clone arrives.
And... wow, yeah, that's the end of the issue.
Quality Rating: D
Chronological Placement Considerations: This is Power and Responsibility part three. It continues in Spectacular Spider-Man #217.
Crossover: Power and Responsibility
Continuity Insert? N
My Reprint: N/A
Peter's not supposed to be in a device- those are normal restraints. The idea is that Peter's just hallucinating- not that Traveller remarks that Peter's recovered from his bout with madness. Fnord, didn't you know that people can just snap out of hallucinations without a doctor's help? :)
Posted by: Michael | April 5, 2018 11:19 PM
That line about "memories of... fights I've never fought" makes me wonder, did they ever address the resolution of Spider-Man 150, where Peter was sure he was the original because he had memories of falling in love with Mary Jane, which the clone wouldn't have because his cells were taken before that?
(This is, of course, accepting the fictional idea that a clone is an exact copy of the original at the moment they were cloned. And ignoring that the original Peter should be covered with scars, which the clone wouldn't be, and is probably also circumcised...)
Posted by: Andrew | April 6, 2018 9:15 AM
Yes, they explain in Spider-Man: the Parker Years that the clone's mind was a perfect duplicate of the real Peter's, including his love for Mary Jane. Of course, the "logic" in Spider-Man 150 never made sense-Warren obviously copied Peter's memories into the clone recently, since they both remembered learning Warren was the Jackal- and indeed, Peter and the clone reacted identically in Spider-Man 149.
Posted by: Michael | April 6, 2018 11:28 PM
I always read the resolution to the original Clone Saga as ambiguous, with Peter convincing himself that he must be the real thing to stay sane and throwing away the test result unread rather than risk finding out that the real him just died.
Posted by: Benway | April 30, 2018 9:31 AM
I think the resolution from the original clone story was that Peter realized he had feelings for Mary Jane, feelings that the clone couldn't possibly have because the clone would have still been in love with Gwen. I believe the cell samples taken from Peter and Gwen were taken at the same time, as part of some sort of science class experiement. The clone would have only had Peter's memories up till that time. That would have taken place before Peter and MJ had gotten together, something the clone would have had no memory of or knowledge of.
Posted by: GreggM | April 30, 2018 1:23 PM
I felt the same way, GreggM, until a few weeks ago, when Michael posted his comment. Cloning is a weird procedure in Marvel Science, because in the real, logical, boring world in which we live, clones are born as babies, so they'd be copies of us as newborns. That's ok, Marvel Science has developed some sort of artificial aging process, through which Ben Reilly has the same age as Peter Parker and Madelyne Pryor has the same age as Jean Grey. But memories aren't inscribed in DNA, which in Scientific Science means the Spider-clone would be bereft of ANY of Peter's memories. So we have to assume that, in addition to the artificial aging process, there's also an artificial memory-xerox process running around in the Marvel universe. So Miles Warren could've copied Peter's memories up until the point he knocked him out.
Maybe Peter reasoned that as a clone he could've had MEMORIES of Mary Jane, but not THE FEELINGS attached to them. Sort of like the way Professor X managed to restore Ms. Marvel's memories prior to Rogue's absorption of her powers and thoughts, but not the feelings to which they were attached. In this case, of course, the clone wouldn't have feelings for Gwen either.
In any event, retcons are retcons, so even if Peter had read the results of Connors's tests, the creators would invalidate them anyway, for the sake of THE Clone Saga. Maybe they'd have the Jackal fake the results, maybe they'd just say he and Connors were somehow in cahoots; it'd be ugly either way.
Posted by: The Transparent Fox | April 30, 2018 2:19 PM
Michael is correct that Peter is wrong to believe that his feelings could not be shared by the clone. The Jackal tells Peter in ASM #149 "that injection I gave you earlier removed some of your RNA -- your memory cells!" It seems he then injected these into the already existing Spider-clone and therefore their memories are both up to date as of that day.
ASM #146 has both Gwen & the Jackal saying that Gwen died 2 years ago (one of the rare times that Marvel time is the same as real time), so both Peter & the clone have memories of the past 2 years since Gwen died, and memories of his growing love for Mary Jane. So the Mary Jane "proof" Peter thinks he finds is not valid, though he can be forgiven for forgetting the Jackal's comment as he would have been distracted by waking up groggily to see Ned in danger and another Spider-Man who is apparently his clone. There was a lot to take in at that point and a lot happened in the next few minutes after it.
I am not criticising Goodwin for this, obviously it was a different era of comics & the young Conway had left him with a confused storyline to try and resolve. A later letters page had to be devoted to explaining all the apparent plotholes Conway hadn't explained. Possibly Goodwin intentionally left it ambiguous behind Peter's apparent certainty.
Posted by: Jonathan, son of Kevin | April 30, 2018 3:58 PM
In fact, Peter's reasoning in ASM #150 is fairly woolly, believing that the clone might also have memories of loving MJ but "my thinking of it now is pure emotional response", and "most emotional responses are learned from outside stimuli". Thus he concludes that the clone would have been negatively influenced by being exposed "even a little" to Warren's "insane jealousy" and obsession with Gwen, so the clone would have been torn between MJ & Gwen while he only thinks of MJ.
I think during this second Clone Saga there are some indications that either Peter or Ben may actually have memories of being a clone in Warren's lab, but in ASM #150, Peter is assuming without evidence that Warren had any interactions with the clone. For all he knows, perhaps the clone had been unconscious until the memory cells were injected.
Posted by: Jonathan, son of Kevin | April 30, 2018 4:18 PM
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